My project gun which I'll be starting on probably this coming month of june is going to be a C8. Right now I'm in the planning stages, and so far the plan calls for a 9.6v butterfly battery. I realize the extra voltage from such a battery will give the gun some extra "snap" and in turn will increase strain on the internal parts such as gears and bushings.

The solution of course is to get reinforced metal gears and bushings. I've been looking at some of the retailer sites, and notice that in the long run, I can save some cash buy purchasing an internal upgrade "kit" that in addition to new gears and bushings, include enhanced springs and the such. This seems like an ideal solution, but the base upgrade makes the jump up to 350fps. Obviously, I don't see the need to go any higher than 350 myself, but I realize a stock m4, the basis of my gun, is only a 275fps weapon. 75fps isn't an insignificant increase in speed.

The short question is: Whats the Max FPS allowable at XT?

350 at xt and 400 outdoor. MAA rules

__________________

If you're only running 350 fps you can use stock gears.



Be careful with that....many times upgrade kits ratings are based on the spring, but other components affect FPS as well. I have a spring rated at 360 fps and my gun shoots 395.

And avoid the Hurricane-brand upgrade kits - the quality control is shit. Really.



Upgrading your personal skills is generally better than upgrading your weapon. A veteran player with a stock gun will outplay a noob with an upgraded gun 90% of the time.

All you really need is metal bushings for longevity and a mild spring to make a significant difference. I like PDI springs - go with a PDI 120. Metal bushings? You can get pretty much any brand, but I like Guarder Double Oil Channel bushings or even Systema Bearing Bushings with a mild spring. A bigger difference will be seen with the following:

1. Tightbore barrel
2. Heavier ammo (.25 as opposed to the .2 that most players use)
3. For M-series guns, a better hopup (First Factory Strike Chamber) since the M4 hopup sucks balls (Unless you buy a Marui M4S)

You don't need 9.6 volts unless you're powering a really high tension spring - these guns were engineered for 8.4 volts. Add more and your internals (gears, motor) will wear out sooner. Also consider that 9.6 volts will really eat up your ammo...if you're going to be playing realisitically with low-capacity magazines, a really high rate of fire means you'll be changing mags a lot; that makes you a liability to your team. It also means you'll need more mags, and better gear to carry those extra mags in, making you heavier, bulkier, slower, and noisier.

Bigger isn't always better in this sport, and knowledge is power. I'd suggest if you're mainly playing at XT (where vegetation penetration isn't an issue) then just stick to a stock mechbox and just do the 3 upgrades I mentioned above. Your gun will last forever and you won't have to worry about mechanical problems. Being a new player with an uber-upgraded gun is not going to get you more kills at XT - it's going to increase the chance that you'll hurt someone.

Thats great input, but I feel the need to clarify myself on a couple things.



This is impeccibly true. While I make no assumptions about how good I am compared to people who have been at this game for ages, I've logged a fair chunk of time getting shot at, with addtional time privatly working on my aim, and some experiance with the family .22

Keep in mind, this plan is an "end game" scenario for this project, which will probably take me 1.5-2 years to complete, during which time I plan to continue to play games on a semi regular basis and look to keep improving. Its not something I plan on dropping a big chunk of money on and stalking into XT with my head jammed up my ass.



Two things here. I'm not looking for an increased RoF. I may switch to full auto on an AEG for maybe 2-3 shots in a 45 minute skirmish. I'm not a spray and pray kinda guy. The reason I'm looking at the 9.6v battery is the increase in mah. The default mini is 8.4v 600mah. While this is fine for a round or 2 at XT, in the long run I would like the ability to spend a day outdoors. The butterfly/nunchuck batter is 9.6v 1700mah, nearly 3x the capacity.

I might add that the internal upgrades are among some of the last parts I plan to add to this project. For an idea, this is my current buying plan.

1. Stock m4, mini battery, charger
2. solid outer barrel
3. c8 body kit (don't know if this affects the reciever, if it doesn't, getting a metal reciever)
4. reinforced gears and bushings (Maybe buy an upgrade kit? Debating)
5. Replica Elcan Sight
6. 9.6v 1700mah battery

It seems I'll have to take your advice and look at replacing the hopup in there somewhere. Maybe at the same time as the rest of the internals.

As a side note, the upgrade kits I was looking at were 007 custom kits. I'm not sure what brand parts they use.

Ok, since I am in a similar process here's what I have learned on the subject.
1. Stock is fine if you are playing at XT only. Before you change anything make sure you know how your gun works.
2. Good idea, the TM one is not that solid, however a barrel alone will not cure the dreaded TM Barrel wobble.
3. The C8 body kit is the upper and lower reciever, changing this and the barrel should cure the wobble.
4. As stated in point 1 if you are only playing at XT don't change this. If you are looking to increase the range, and accuracy of your gun it will be alot more that Gears and bushings.
5. Cool, nice choice.
6. Playing at XT an 8.4V 600 mAh battery should last around 3 games. Depending on your rate of fire (I seem to recall reading you can get around 1 bb per mAh, so you should be able to fire around 10 magazines).

My upgrades are being done in reverse of yours. I am doing the internals to have a more accurate, more fieldable gun.

How bad is the M4A1 barrel wobble? I've been looking into guns and have heard this mentioned. Will tightening the barrel fix this durring game play?

Speaking of M4s, for a day out skirmishing please tell me if i'm forgetting something:

1. you would need 5mags (low)
2. a few batteries to get through the day.

From what I'm reading a stock gun with a good amount of mags and a smart player will get through the day fine.

I've also been meaning to ask this question:

When it says the gun needs to be chrono, what exactly does that entail? I'm assuming that the gun has to be checked out to meet the standards of that game.
Sorry for the n00b question.

__________________

PVT B co 1/7th Air Cav

G00mba,

5 mags should last a day of skirmishing (you can always re-fill them between skrims). I have used my 8.4V 600mAh battery for a full day of skirmishing without it going dead. My M4 has not started to wobble yet, so I really cannot say if you can tighten it between games.

Chronoing involves measuring the speed of the BB, either by an optical sensor or radar (not sure how accurate this would be). As the bb passes between 2 sensors the time it takes to pass is calculated, given it is traveling a known distance. The rest is pure math.

I make no assumptions . However, the more often you open your gun up, the more wear and tear and potential to break something there is. It's important to realize that when Tokyo Marui built these guns, they were not designed to be opened or upgraded. TM (and most Japanese players) tend to look at these things as disposable, which is why TM also doesn't make or sell a lot of repair parts.



You can buy a custom-made 8.4 volt battery with more mah - it's just one less cell. If you plan on shooting as little as you say you will, you don't really need anything bigger than 600mah - my P90 gets over 3 hicaps (that's almost 1000 rounds) on an 8.4 volt 600mah mini battery - that's enough to play a 24-hour long scenario game, which I have done (Operation: Capital Thunder II) without running out of juice.



If I may make a suggestion, are you REALLY hung up on getting a C8 body? Is anyone actually going to notice the trademarks from more than 2 feet away? If you can do without, I'd really suggest getting a TM M4S. The M4S already has a one-peice solid outer barrel and the improved hopup right from the factory. It also comes with a replia Knight's Armament SIR.



There's nothing wrong with the stock plastic TM body, either - as long as you're not using your gun as a club.



It looks like a mix and match of PDI springs and Systema bushings, shims, and gears. Decent parts.

On a side note, DO NOT under any circumstances get an aluminum piston or piston head (as in the green ones in the 007 upgrades). The TM M-series guns have an inherent flaw in the mechbox design and using a metal piston/piston head will ensure you have a broken mechbox in a reasonably short time. Buy polyacetal, nylon, or polycarbonate parts and you will minimize the potential for catastrophic damage, but any kind of spring upgrade on a TM M4 is going to shorten the life of your gun.

On barrel wobble: All TM M-series guns (excepting perhaps the M4S, but it's too new to tell) develop barrel wobble over time when well-used. The only true cure is a metal body and 1-piece outer barrel. It's a design flaw - a heavy-ish front end supported by plastic.

As an aside, another option for you may be buying a used M4 to see if this hobby really is for you. Once you and I hook up for age verification, I can set you up on ASC's buy + sell and you can probably find a well-cared-for used gun (prehaps already upgraded) for significantly less than the cost of new.

Once again I totally amazed by the amount of possibilities available to the airsoft community. I never even thought about getting a custom battery. That definatly would increase mah and I could get it to fit with 0 modification!


Well, maybe, maybe not. But I'd like something just a little bit unique, even though I'm sure many people probably already have them. It'll matter to me The secondary benifit of a c8 body is that it will be a metal reciever, solving 1/2 my wobble problem.


That really was my plan. If I can luck out and find a used m4 with good internals, but maybe a bit of body damage, I can pick it up cheap and go from there.

I also have to make a statement. You guys here and on ASC have actually been incredibly helpful and encouraging. Which is a far cry from the typical anal retentive forum elite that plague the internet.

Another thing to consider is the type of cells you'll be using - Nickle Cadmium (NiCad) or Nickle Metal Hydride (NiMH).

NiCads are cheaper, and when they run down they fire slower and slower until your gun eventually stops. The bonus to this is you can tell when your battery is going down. They can be charged with a relatively inexpensive charger. They also should be stored discharged (meaning you need to discharge them after every day you play) for maximum life. The best NiCads cells are made by Sanyo.

NiMH are more expensive, and when they run down they just stop dead...no warning. One second the gun shoots, the next it doesn't. You also need a better (read: more expensive) charger. However, they can be stored charged with no ill effects. The best NiMH cells are made by GP.

You can find good, cheap batteries and chargers on EBAY. Don't skimp on your charger - aside from your goggles and gun, it's the next most important peice of kit you'll own. Cheap ones (that you have to time so they don't overcharge and make the cells explode) are about $15-25....a computerized idiot-proof one is significantly more, but can usually charge both NiMH and NiCad cells safely.

There are some good cheap deals here if you have PayPal:

http://stores.ebay.com/All-Batterie...1QQftidZ2QQtZkm